In Beijing it makes sense to go to Tiananmen and then go on to the Forbidden City from there, as they are in the same place.

I would have hotels arrange train tickets.

There is enough time for most things. You can't really see the whole Shanghai museum thoroughly in half a day, but I wouldn't recommend trying. If you want to see more, you can always go back at the end of the trip.

Shopping--Panjiayuan if you are in Beijing on a weekend. It is good to combine this with Temple of Heaven.

Travellevret -

My apologies for the dysfunctional formatting

of my original post.

I was able to find additional information pertaining to

train scheduling/costs/purchase dates. I am still

uncertain as to how I wish to plan October 5 & 6 (Shanghai)

dates; Is it possible to visit Hangzhou, Tongli and Xi'Tang

in this two day period or would that be overkill? If so,

should I plan on staying overnight in Hangzhou or Tongli?

I still am unclear as to the distance between these three places

and how I should divide the time between the three. I will need

to return to Shanghai the second evening. Is this at all

doable with the time constraints and holiday week?

Any additional input you have would be appreciated.

I haven't been to Xitang or Tongli. I hope to go in a few weeks, but I doubt you can do both plus Hangzhou in two days.

With fast trains, you can visit Hangzhou in a day trip from Shanghai. It'd be a long day, though.

I too like Hangzhou much more than Suzhou. If you decide to visit Hangzhou then you should combine it with Xitang instead of Tongli for transport reasons.

Shanghai -- Beijing Z train soft sleeper will be extremely in demand as 7/10 is the end of the National Day holiday week. Train tickets go on sale 10 days in advance and I'd expect the the soft sleepers to be sold out by noon on the 1st day of sale.

Will the tour not see Tiananmen Square and Forbidden City together on 11/10? It's worth asking, as you could save an additional trip there on 8/10.

Suggest that you also see Yonghegong Lamasery on 8/10, and have dinner at Gui Jie (Ghost Street) after that.

You should try to visit the Shaanxi Provincial History Museum in Xi'an, probably on 14/10.

Yes, it's indeed more difficult to get train tickets for Xi'an -- Shanghai as opposed to Beijing -- Shanghai. Contact John in Xi'an (johnqingg2004@yahoo.com.cn) to get you the tickets in advance. The correct train number is T140.

Local markets in Shanghai... try exploring the area around the Old City. If you're interested in artsy and unique shops, try Taikang Lu in the French Concession.

It looks like you've missed out seeing the Bund and Nanjing Lu pedestrian street in Shanghai, as well as the sights in Pudong. Any particular reason why?

Trying to see Hangzhou, Xitang AND Tongli in 2 days is too much. I could spend 1.5 days for Xitang or Tongli alone (including travel time), and 1.5-2 days in Hangzhou alone.

Do you also have the option of going by overnight Z train for Hangzhou -- Beijing so that you don't have to detour back to Shanghai? Or, go to Hangzhou immediately upon arrival at Shanghai (Pudong airport, I presume) and work your way back Hangzhou -- Xitang -- Shanghai?

If you like New York, you'll love Shanghai. I do not advise a day trip from there to anywhere. There's so much in Shankers.

The museum store has one stop shopping, no bargaining. A good book selection, silk devore of good quality (easy to pack elegant scarves), repro porcelain. If you're not shopper, this is easy. The museum is arranged by theme: jade, bronze, ceramics, paintings. This makes it easy to navigate. For instance, I found the furniture section rather meager.

The area around the Yu Yuan is full of touristy shopping. If you like an American boardwalk without the rides, you'll be fine. The garden is fine, a good example of its wondrous type. Unless you love gardens it should be sufficient and you can miss Suzhou. Remember that almost everything you see will have been remarked upon by multitudes who have left their foot and fingerprints.

In Shanghai try Nanjing Lu at night and walk to the Bund. DO not miss the Bund.

In Shanghai a place I enjoy is the pet market. China flunks the PETA test. Be warned. However pet cricket stuff, especially the little ceramic food dishes and cages are unusual. The dishes are great for salt dishes at a formal table. When I was in Shanghai the pet market was near a live meat market. Critters of all sorts from ducks on down awaiting their doom seemed like a zoo of death. If this is for you, inquire at your hotel. Neither of these places had any tourists.

The Emerald Buddha is worth a taxi ride. Check the hours locally. Honor the story of how the place survived the Cultural Revolution. They close for lunch.

Read up on Xintiandi. This rehabbed Disney-ish area I enjoyed, especially the house museum.

If you sign up for a tour anywhere be certain you understand which factories are included. Depending on your taste and tolerance you can waste a lot of time watching jade being machined, silk being explained and warriors being formed in molds. The processes for all these I found self-evident and the gigantic shops attached uninteresting.

In Xian at the warriors DO NOT miss the museum. The wariors themselves stand in rows like the postcards.

The less excavated area at the rear gave me a better understanding of the place.Take time to reflect that the emperor's tomb lies unexcavated.If you eat in the gigantic restaurant be sure to see the man making noodles.

The provincial museum in town is excellent with English labels if you have time. The stele museum I found briefly fascinating. There's one with a very old reference to Christianity, a reminder that China has long been cosmopolitan and isolated, that it has chosen what it feels is the best for China(think fossil fuels when you next pay at the pump).Outside the stele museum is a fascinating street for browsing.The government antique store had a piece of porcelain that brought me to near tears when the clerk urged me to hold it. When I was there I found a maker of shadow puppets, a real master who had exquisite tooled leather puppets, better than any I have ever seen elsewhere. They pack flat, can be framed at home, and for the right young person could be a perfect gift.

Another warning: the Tang Dynasty Dinner Theater. Average food. A variety show with pretty girls shooting out their long sleeves. For this I missed the Muslim Quarter. But my tour liked it, they really liked it. It's what tour groups do at night, all the tour groups, every single one. But it's an easy evening activity.

In Beijing there's a Confucian Temple near the mobbed Lama Temple. It's tranquil, something you'll learn to treasure in China. The area,I'm told,still has a surrounding hutong.

The advice about Tiananmen and the Forbidden City is solid. At the entrance to the city you might still be able to buy a scarf with a map imprinted, a great souvenir. Follow the central axis and then do the eastern axis if you have time. Parts may be under restoration using glossy red paint.

Remember that Beijing closes early by Parisian or New York standards. Eat before the Beijing Opera or acrobats. Be sure to get up early at least once to go to a major park to see people doing their exercises.

See what China does better and treasure our glories as well.

In Beijing go to LiuLiChang which may or may not be 100 years old. It's a shopping street that has all the elements that look and are "Chinese." There are lanterns, birds in cages, "antiques," tea sellers, art supplies, paper cuts(easily transported to be framed at home), chops to be carved to order in 15 minutes. Perhaps you'll find the shadow puppet theater that welcomed me to a rehearsal for a small fee.It's pleasant.

You shouldn't be accosted. If you are, "boo yao" literally meaning "not want" should end it.This isn't"Hard Rick Cafe,Ralph Laurin" knockoff alley.

To buy a chop you select a stone priced by quality. pull out the name/word written by your guide or concierge or use the store's dictionary. Come back in 15 minutes. Buy an ink pot if the chop is going to be used.

Sorry to be so wordy. In LiuLiChang a "wedding box" was 180 down from 300. At the dirt market the exact same item was 80. They both made welcomed gifts. But there's no pleasant ambiance at the huge exhausting dirt market.

Re: Peking Duck. Go for the whole banquet: duck pads to soup. Otherwise you'll just get slices, pancakes, scallions and sauce. Good, but you can get that at home. Sure it's Peking duck in Beijing, but you ought to get the story to tell about those duck pads and that milky appearing soup at the end.

To abw67,

hehehehhe~~ you're really a talker!

I don't know why your people remembered the duck so clearly. last time I with a guy, who from Australia, had the dinner at the Peking duck restaurant, and the next year he came back again, while we were passing that intersection, he's still remembered the restaurant is at the right side.

By the way, did u get the card with the words on: "the duck you enjoyed is the number xxx". I think it is really funny. Maybe someday, the ducks can accuse us with that evidence.

Anyway, good to know you.

To outolunch:

Hi, are you going for a trip or a march?

I mean, you may arranged your days too crowded. And especially you'll visit here with your mom, does she can stand such a tired trip too? Isn't it more better to just wanderring arround?

Since I'm a beijinger, and all I know is only the things in beijing, your days from October 8-12, seems a little disordered, which will waste you a lot of time on walk, since some places you want to go are near each other but you just go between them back and forth.

If I were you, I would like to make my mom more comfy and cozy. How about make the Tianqiao Acrobatic Show and the Temple of heaven trip in a day since they are not far from each other, and the Hongqiao Market is there too, where you can just take a walk in the market, better not for a real purchasing, because there price never be nice to you guys. Smile~~ ( or you can get someone local to bargain for you)

And I need to tell you that the forbidden city need a long time to walk to go through the whole place. But since you choose a very lovly time to come here, the nice weather may make the trip easier. And still, make sure that your mom can get enough rest while in the visit.

And since we made a modify on the day 8/10, I think wandering arround Tiananmen square can be combined with the Dinner Peking duck. And sure you won't spend a whole day just on the square, there are many historic parks near arround, and you also can see the new land icon- National theater, designed by Paul Andrew, an famous france architect... such like that.　

And it is absolutely worth to spend a whole day to go Summer palace. It is a very beautiful place, and it is also a place I always have a walk with my mom. We just walk planlessly on the bank, with nice views surround. Trust me, it will be the best time share with your mom.

Hehe, see I am a talker too. Well did I　make you a little headache, since I changed your arrangement a lot?

Anyway, hope that can help.